Curse

LifeInfusion · Jan 11, 2008, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Back in the day before Factions and Gift of Health...Divine Boon monks used to carry this and it allowed for a lot more flexibility because it has a 1/4 cast time and cannot be shut down by spell interrupts.

What do you think led to its nonuse on newer monks? Is it the lack of enchantments that are constantly on you? The danger of having prots stripped? The numerous nerfs to inspiration magic and Mantra of recall?

Songbringer · Jan 11, 2008, 05:16 AM // 05:16

i run cop all the time in ra stops all those migraine mesmers

dies like fish · Jan 11, 2008, 05:17 AM // 05:17

It doesn't work on allies. Monks don't really get hit with a lot of hexes.

Riotgear · Jan 11, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

The fact that you no longer have Mantra of Recall and Divine Boon up constantly.

TheHaxor · Jan 11, 2008, 05:42 AM // 05:42

lack of mass self enchants

plus holy veil owns

good team hex removal is ftw

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

i run cop all the time in ra stops all those migraine mesmers

so does preveil

Div · Jan 11, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Combination of not enough enchantments to throw away to CoP, not enough massive hexstacks thrown on monks, and not enough bar space.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 11, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

The main hex you're going to want to remove from yourself is diversion, and you don't really want to divert your CoP

makosi · Jan 11, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Each chapter has introduced more enchantment-hate which is spammable, easier to use and with fewer drawbacks. For this reason, you're much less likely to have enchantments for CoP to be as effective. Anet also increased the recharge a couple of times.

LifeInfusion · Jan 12, 2008, 02:32 AM // 02:32

The only reason why I asked this is because it seems that it is what kept bulk hex and condition pressure on monks inline prior to Factions. Then again monks basically consisted of Divine Boon + Mantra of Recall + prot skills (esp. reversal of Fortune, Mend ailment on 2 cooldown, Inspired Hex for additional energy management, and the formerly 1/4 cast time Guardian). I guess mend ailment is no longer viable for reapplied condition stacks since it is on 5 cooldown.

Factions gave us Blessed Light + Gift of Health synergy and also splashed in heal into the prot line with Spirit Bond, which I remember War Machine or the Last Pride running. However, this was when Blessed Light had 5 cooldown. Now it is 3 cooldown, but you don't see it run even though it is the quickest recharging hex removal available. The 10 energy cost is a killer since you need about 8 seconds of energy regen to get 10 energy assuming no energy management.

Things like Zealous Benediction (somewhat overshadowed by Word of Healing now due to the energy return nerf), Light of Deliverance (nerfed to oblivion in both heal power and cast time), Glimmer of Light (hard to interrupt ...not for me but maybe someone else will like it), Healer's Boon, Divert Hexes (so niche it isn't funny), come out of Nightfall. None of them were flexible though, they seem to be pure bars go up skills.

Eye of the North wasn't as pivotal since no new elites came. Cure Hex is nice but it didn't change anything besides the hex removal of choice.

When I think of a flexible monk skillbar I think of the oldschool divine boon + mantra of recall monks. I haven't been able to replicate the flexibility it provided and nowadays enchantment stripping makes Divine Boon sort of a liability outside of Smiter's Boon builds (aka not for serious monking). That is why I bothered to ask about Contemplation of Purity since nowadays it seems like shooting yourself in the foot to strip your enchantments off.

Bowstring Badass · Jan 12, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Boon prot still works in ab.

lol

Byron · Jan 12, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Nerfing of Boon, then monks learned how to use veil. I think CoP itself used to be better... I remember just mashing CoP when I got deep wound and then thinking, "lol full health."

pah01 · Jan 12, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

The main hex you're going to want to remove from yourself is diversion, and you don't really want to divert your CoP

Back in the day you used to inspire the diversions of yourself and save cop for all the other stuff that is high priority, like shame.

I personally think Cop died when the inspiration line got nerfed.

I dont think it will ever come back due to the fact that Monk bars are almost invariable at the moment and only change depending on your elite and whether or not you have aegis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Nerfing of Boon, then monks learned how to use veil. I think CoP itself used to be better... I remember just mashing CoP when I got deep wound and then thinking, "lol full health."

Also monks knew how to use veil when cop was at the peak of its powers. Monks didnt have "to learn" how to use veil when boon got nerfed at all.
Joe

TheOneMephisto · Jan 12, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Veil + CoP was pretty leetsauce though. Invulnerability to hex stacks due to the ability to remove 4 at once easily was fun.

Animate · Jan 12, 2008, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

lack of mass self enchants

plus holy veil owns

good team hex removal is ftw

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

i run cop all the time in ra stops all those migraine mesmers

so does preveil

Preveil only stops mesmers without ench removes.
CoP also removes dazed, deep wound, cripple, ...

LifeInfusion · Jan 12, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animate

Preveil only stops mesmers without ench removes.
CoP also removes dazed, deep wound, cripple, ...

exactly.

For multiple hexes without preveil, the closest thing for monks is probably Deny Hexes with a semi-long recharge skill like Divine Intervention or Divine Spirit. With regards to bulk removal Spotless Mind seems to be close as well but it is an enchantments that target other ally, removing after some time not simultaneously. That's all fine and dandy but other than Signet of Removal/purge signet all of those are spells (aka Migraine makes it interrupt bait). You cannot even rely on Hexeater signet (if you go Mo/Me) since it is touch range (meaning you only), and on 25 cooldown...

The thing is, CoP used to be the "don't monkstomp skill" since it effectively removed condition and hex stacks, and in my opinion, causing players to attack midliners with support. Backfire (favorite monkstomp skill of players) +Shame+Migraine (CoP isn't a spell) +Diversion+cover hex, Daze (CoP isn't a spell) + Deepwound+poison, you name it and it came off. I think that is why Restore Condition came to popularity after Boonprot, since condition stacks are quite common and Prot didn't have an actual heal then. Mending Touch diminished the importance of RC though. Divert Hexes is pretty niche unless you know there is going to be many hexes flying about and most players that run hexes in bulk carry Signet of Humility.

IIRC, blackout used to be more important, since things like CoP weren't exactly interruptable by the bulk of Mesmer interrupts (1/4 cast nonspell skill) except Cry of Frustration/Leech Signet...that is until Complicate and Web of Disruption came about.

Riotgear · Jan 12, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Back in the day you used to inspire the diversions of yourself and save cop for all the other stuff that is high priority, like shame.

As I recall, using Inspired Hex on Diversion triggered Diversion before removing. (Read: You spend 5 energy to get Inspired Hex diverted).

TheOneMephisto · Jan 12, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

As I recall, using Inspired Hex on Diversion triggered Diversion before removing. (Read: You spend 5 energy to get Inspired Hex diverted).

Yea, but using inspired hex to get something else besides the diversion on you would get rid of the diversion, 2 hexes removed for 5 energy.

Allmightybob · Jan 13, 2008, 07:41 AM // 07:41

It came about when Energy Drain and Offering of Blood both got nerfed and people were still running boonprotects. I think somewhere between Gift of Health and the Glyph of Lesser Energy buff the build fell out of favour.

Productivity · Jan 13, 2008, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Yea, but using inspired hex to get something else besides the diversion on you would get rid of the diversion, 2 hexes removed for 5 energy.

And then you'd burn another diversion by casting the 5e parabond that you inspired onto something else.

pah01 · Jan 13, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

As I recall, using Inspired Hex on Diversion triggered Diversion before removing. (Read: You spend 5 energy to get Inspired Hex diverted).

Not if you were inspiring of another hex on somebody else. the diversion affected the cooldown of the hex you inspired.